NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/lang/c++-part1/7758

Internet Message Format | 1996-08-05 | 3.6 KB

Path: news.reed.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Grant Reaber)
Newsgroups: de.comp.lang.c,de.comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.tcl,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.databases.sybase,comp.databases.oracle,comp.databases.informix
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: Vacant Job Positions
Date: 14 Feb 1996 15:20:12 GMT
Organization: Reed College,  Portland, Oregon
Message-ID: <4fsujc$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4fok28$[e-mail]> <4fonji$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remus.reed.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, john b  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Correct my summary of this issue if I'm wrong.
>
>1) Corporate America does not recognize that there are very competent
>"non-degreed computer" people out there.
>2) Corporate America is probably bypassing a great source of knowledge.
>3) Most of corporate America is prejudice.
>4) All things equal, a degree will always win out.
>5) Having a degree does not make you any better than anyone else.
>6) Not having a degree more than likely will limit initial opportunities,
>   but if persistent things will work out.
>7) Good experience is worth just as much as a degree.

Well I guess that's a good summary of one half of the issue :-).  First
of all, a degree is valuable for many reasons that have nothing to do
with getting and doing a good job; surely you have heard about the
importance of a broad liberal arts education.  But a degree should also
be an occupational asset.  College exposes one to subjects and opinions
one would never have explored on one's own.  Young degreeless programmers
are unlikely to know much about the more theoretical and abstract ideas
of computer science or about the history of computer science.  They may
be able to perform well at a narrow job, but the overcompartmentalized
environments in  which they will thrive are just those that support the
cancerous growth of monolithic programs.

All that said, it must be conceded that many degrees hardly approach the
liberal ideal.  Getting a degree from some colleges is probably of
little value to anyone smart and motivated enough to be a good programmer.

>
>Just to share a personal experience, I recall working with two newly
>hired people.  One degreed, the other one not.  They both were terrible
>programmers.  Both of them got fired.  Both of them got what they had
>coming.  The company I worked for was just as eager to get rid of the
>degreed person as quickly as the non degreed person. Hmmm.... maybe we
>should start a post about people fired instead of hired.

So?  Obviously not everyone with a degree will be stellar or even
adequate.  But I hope you're rethinking your hiring strategies to better
weed out incompetent applicants.

>Hell, then we
>would probably get the ACLU in here.  "The firing of this degreed person
>was a blatant attempt to undermind the acedemic standards of this great
>nation of ours.  I say that his civil rights were not only unfairly
>sabotaged, but the firing is also a threat to every degreed person out
>there.  If you think this firing will stop here, you're kidding yourself.
>Every degreed person should see this as a threat to their very being."
>
>Yeah, whatever.

The ACLU has done a tremendous amount of good work in the advancement of
civil rights.  If you disagree with some stance of theirs, by all means
take them up on it; I certainly don't agree with all of their
positions.  However thoughtless remarks like this only serve to make
thousands of people who only know through your postings think that you
are a bigot or perhaps just a fool.

Grant